Interview with and about Koko

- a Gorilla who can speak in sign language


First, a word about Gorillas ...

If you've been lucky enough to see gorillas in a modern zoo, on television, or on streaming video on-line, the similarity between our species is readily apparent. Sure they walk differently and have more hair than most humans, but gorillas play and perhaps think in very human ways. The gorilla family life is visibly filled with love and interpersonal dynamics. The playful and complex behavior of gorillas provides a snapshot into the intelligence and grace of the species.

 

 

 

 

 

(Koko and Dr. Penny Patterson)

Either through projection or empathy, we can see our lives in the lives of mammals. This feeling of universality brings on the question, what do animals really think and feel? Many of us were taught that language is unique to humans yet Project Koko contradicts this through the teaching of American Sign Language to two lowland gorillas, Michael (who recently passed away) and Koko.

Happy Birthday to Koko who turned thirty in July 2001! Koko's participation in the project began when she was one year old.

"During the course of the study, Koko has advanced further with language than any other non-human. Koko has a working vocabulary of over 1000 signs. Koko understands approximately 2,000 words of spoken English. Koko initiates the majority of conversations with her human companions and typically constructs statements averaging three to six words. Koko has a tested IQ of between 70 and 95 on a human scale, where 100 is considered "normal." Michael, the male silverback gorilla who grew up with Koko, had a working vocabulary of over 600 signs." (from www.koko.org)

The following is an interview with Koko and Dina Pettit, Lead Gorilla Caregiver, and also features Koko's responses as documented by Dr. Penny Patterson, founder of the Koko Project.


FreeCityMedia: We're most interested in behaviors and feelings that are traditionally thought of as uniquely human, for example: storytelling and drawing. Do you find examples of this type of creativity almost every day?


Dr. Patterson sees this type of creativity more than the rest of the Caregivers because she has a much more intimate relationship with Koko than we do. Koko does sometimes participate in storytelling and she loves to doodle or "write" when she has access to pens and paper. Koko only gets to use pens, paper, and paints when she is with Dr. Patterson and Dr. Cohn. When she can, she likes to "write" on the checklists and diaries that we use to record data when we are with her.


FCM: The drawings of Koko are particularly intriguing. In the pictures of her on your site she seems like an overgrown elementary school kid, yet her hands demonstrate maturity and mastery in the way she holds a pencil. Does she seem to enjoy painting as a tactile creative game? Is there an effort on her part to develop and grow as an artist demonstrated by her work changing over time? Has she ever made comments that would "deconstruct" her paintings in any way?

Although Koko does enjoy painting, I don't think that it is her favorite creative outlet. As I mentioned above, she really enjoys writing and doodling. And I believe that her most developed creative outlet is her use of sign language. She uses language to express emotions, make jokes and rhymes, and even to insult people. She also has invented many of her own signs for new objects and spoken words for which she has not been taught signs.

Michael, who was also involved in the language project and passed away a little over a year ago, showed much more interest in painting than Koko. Michael seemed to have a natural talent for painting and created some incredible still lifes as well as abstract works. I can't really say if either Koko or Michael's works changed or developed over time. Each piece is a unique work of art. One of the things I find most interesting about their work is that they use sign language to name their own artwork, and the titles they choose are very appropriate. They also select their own colors from a full palate and again, their selections are always very appropriate.

Koko and Michael's artwork can be viewed on our web site at
http://www.koko.org/world/art.html.


(This a painting by Michael of his dog friend called Apple)

 

 

 

FCM Question to Koko: If other gorillas could paint do you think they'd like to do it?

FCM Question to Koko: You use a lot of red in your paintings. Is red your favorite color to paint with? Why do you like it?

Dr. Penny Patterson: Why is your favorite color red?
Koko: There. (pointing to her doll's pink dress) Lip. (Koko rubs her lip and her doll's lip)
PP: Oh, because lips are red!
K: That red red. (pointing to red flower on fabric)
K: Nipple there Nipple. (pointing to the piece of paper Penny has with the interview questions on it)
PP: Yes, questions from people. (Koko often uses the word nipple to mean people.)


FCM: Do you see her playing with dolls - as social play, an as outlet for her nurturing and maternal spirit?

Yes, Koko does use her dolls in both of these ways. Koko often cradles and kisses her favorite dolls. She is especially maternal with her gorilla and other primate dolls. She likes to hold them to her nipples as if they are nursing, and sometimes even molds their hands into signs. Koko has also been observed having her alligator dolls bite other dolls, or even herself or Penny. She also sometimes
uses her toy alligators to "scare" her human companions by jabbing them at her mesh during chase games.

FCM Question to Koko: Why do you like kittens? (Does Koko have a sign for cute?)

PP: Why like kittens better than puppies? Koko puts flowered scarf on her head, then kisses a small blonde haired doll and puts it to her nipple.
PP: Because we bring kitties in blankets?
Koko does not respond.
PP: Any other reason you like kittens?
K: Cat (signed 4 times on left cheek) cat (signed on right cheek), then moves her hand down her muzzle area (possibly short muzzle??)
PP: I'm having trouble with that sign.
K: Cat cat.
PP: You like kittens because...
K: Cat good (Koko puts her hand to her nipple, but Penny can't tell if it is the sign nipple, or a variation.)

FCM: Cultural constructs are also traditionally thought of as uniquely human. In Koko, we see "Culture as Gorilla." Spending so much time with gorillas, do you think you see the world with a gorilla's lens? Have you become acculturated to gorilla-speak? Do you try to find a balance between acculturating Koko to ASL framed patterns of communication with maintaining a "traditional" gorilla social group?

Koko and her companion, Ndume, and their caregivers definitely live within a unique culture. We use sign language as well as spoken English when communicating with the gorillas, but we are also sensitive to their natural behaviors and postures. We try to give the gorillas as much control over their daily activities as we can. They are allowed to be inside or outside and can choose to spend time with each other, or with their caregivers. We don't try to force Koko to use sign language. Instead we try to interest her in activities or games that allow her to be creative and sign if she
wants to. Koko enjoys using language to communicate and doesn't need to be prompted.


FCM Question to Koko: What would you like to teach your dolls or kitten, or a baby gorilla? What have you learned from other gorillas?

PP: What have you learned from other gorillas?
K: Gorilla. (signed with one hand instead of two)
Penny repeats the question.
K: Upper-fake-tooth good Koko good. (Upper-fake-tooth is a sign Koko invented for people with fillings or caps on their teeth. She also often uses the sign when talking about visitors or new workers because she always wants to look at their teeth.)


Koko lives as a cross-cultural individual. Do you think Koko tries to see the world as you do sometimes? Does she ever demonstrate frustration at not having a sign for a feeling/behavior/idea/group process that seems uniquely gorilla? Also, has she ever demonstrated frustration that other gorillas might not understand her signing? Do you think Koko understands her unique role in the world? Do you think it has ever created existential questions for her?

Koko definitely enjoys many human activities such as writing, thumbing through magazines and books, and watching TV and videos. She also likes to do the things she sees her caregivers doing when she has the opportunity. Koko gets to leave her enclosure for walks on the Gorilla Foundation grounds several times a year. During these walks, she likes to look into the office windows, get into Penny and Ron's vehicles, and has even filled a bucket with soap and water to wash some laundry.

Koko does get frustrated when she cannot get her human companions to understand her. She is in a very unique situation in that she is able to create new signs, but she can't always get us to understand what the signs mean. I don't think she expects too much of other gorillas as far as language. They have their own very sophisticated ways of communicating. through postures, gestures, facial expressions, vocalizations and pheromones.

I think that Koko knows that she is unique. She sees many images of other gorillas, but never any using language and interacting with humans in the ways she does. I don't think she realizes what an impact she has had on the world. If she does have existential thoughts, it would be very difficult for her to communicate them to us.

FCM speculates the response to the question "What have you learned from other gorillas?" (K: Gorilla. (signed with one hand instead of two) K: Upper-fake-tooth good Koko good.) might very well be an existenial response. What she's learned from other gorillas is that non-signing gorillas understand only understand part of what humans are saying, and that her understanding makes her a unique gorilla, and a good one.


FCM Questions to Koko: Do your signs sound different to gorillas than humans? Would a gorilla understand your paintings more clearly than a human? Would it be fun if kittens could sign?

PP: Would it be fun if kittens could sign?
K: Stupid. (She may have actually signed browse which is what we call the greens and leaves Koko gets between meals. The two signs are very similar.)
Penny repeats the question.
K: Sorry teeth.


FCM speculates that Koko knows it is impossible for kitties to sign, because they don't have the literal chops (skills) for it.

FCM Question to Koko: Do gorillas have "signs" or "vocalizations" that humans don't understand? About family life? Nature?

PP: Do gorillas have "signs" or "vocalizations" that humans don't understand? About family life? Nature?
K: Stupid.
PP: What are those signs about?
K: Have food.


FCM Question to Koko: What qualities make it fun or easy to hang out with a particular gorilla or human?

PP: What qualities make it fun or easy to hang out with a particular gorilla or human?
K: Sleep. Eat. Sip. (Koko likes people to sit or lie down when they visit her so they are less threatening. She also likes people who bring food and drinks.)
PP: What other activities?
K: Nose, nipple. (signed many times)
PP: Nosey about nipples?


FCM speculates that Nose and Nipple signs might be that a fun gorilla or human smells good (or at least is inoffensive to her), and is "sexy" or maternal.

FCM: Do you think that signing gorillas and intimate human handlers have formed a tribe? Does Koko use any signs concerning kinship and relationships?

I think that anyone who works closely with gorillas, whether they sign or not, forms a special bond with them. Gorillas live in family groups and the humans who work with them are often considered by the gorillas to be part of the group. I believe that a gorilla would try to protect a human companion from danger as if that person were a member of it's family. Koko knows the signs for "mother," "father," and "baby," and she distinguishes strangers as "visitors." I'm sure that she understands the concepts of friends and family, but she doesn't really sign about these things.

FCM: Has Koko made any comments that relate to dreaming, and what happens when you die?

Koko has sometimes signed unusal things in the mornings which Penny thinks relate to dreams. I don't have any specific examples of these, but here are some conversations Michael had with his caregivers regarding dreams.


With Barbara Weller 3/8/81
BW: How did you sleep?
M: Sleep do pull-out-hair
BW: Pull-out-hair?
M: Pull-out-hair
BW: Bad night? Any Dreams? What happened?
M: Out teeth sorry
*( Mike had a disturbing dream that affected his sleep. By his statement it is possible he dreamt about his teeth falling out. This is a fairly common theme in human dreams where the loss of teeth symbolizes an actual loss or fear deep in the sub-conscience.)

With BW 3/10/81
(Lisa brings some body lotion for Mike)
BW: Where want oil?
M: Feet
(BW squirts some lotion on Mike's feet and he rubs it in)
BW: Any dreams last night? Dreams?
M: Why. Why do you trouble quiet?
BW: Any dreams last night?
M: Dream cat bird eat taste
BW: Oh dear, bad dream about cats eating birds?
M: Sad. Cat devil
*( Another dream description of a cat eating a bird. Especially interesting because he uses the word "Dream" in his recounting of it.)

With Barbara Weller 11/1/80
BW: What you see in your dream?
M: Know dream Mike?Good drink
BW: You dream about good drinks?
M: Good
BW: What else you see in dreams?
M: Squash
BW: Squash? Squash who?
M: Gorilla squash
BW: You squash another gorilla?
M: gorilla do squash me
BW: You squash who? Koko?
M: Tree


Koko has been asked about death several times, especially when her kitten, All Ball, was killed by a car. The following conversations were published in our The Gorilla Foundation's biannual publication, Gorilla.

Gorilla, Volume 8, Number 1, from December, 1984.
One day Koko was having a conversation with Research Assistant Maureen Sheehan.
MS: Where do gorillas go when they die?
Koko: Comfortable hole bye.
MS: When do gorillas die?
K: Trouble, old.
MS: How do gorillas feel when they die, happy, sad, afraid?
K: Sleep.

Gorilla, Volume 8, Number 2.

December 18, 1984, three days after All Ball had been killed, with
Dr. Penny Patterson:
PP: Do you want to talk about your kitty?
K: Cry.
PP: What happened to your kitty?
K: Sleep cat.
PP: Yes, he's sleeping.
K: Koko good.


FCM Question to Koko: What do you dream about? Do you dream of other jungles?

PP: What do you dream about? Do you dream of other jungles?
Koko does not respond.
PP: What kind of dreams does Koko have?
K: Know dream good.
PP: Koko has good dreams.
K: Nipple.
PP: Do you dream about jungles, forests, trees?
K: Nipple.

FCM is wondering about this continuing Nipple response - nipple as a metaphor for the baby-mother relationship, nipple as people, nipple as sexual and positive. Even if we can't be sure of the nuances of Koko's dreams, it is clear that her mind is filled with images, ideas and emotions. I am glad that Koko the Gorilla does dream, and that the dream is good.

For more information you can contact The Gorilla Foundation/Koko.org, PO Box 620530, Woodside, CA 94062. Or visit their very interesting site on-line at www.koko.org

You can also call them at (800) ME-GO-APE (634-6273)

Interview (c) 2001 Heidi Bensen (Free City Media), Koko, Dr. Penny Patterson and Dina Pettit (The Gorilla Foundation/Project Koko) and may not be reprinted without express permission. Photos and gorilla artwork used with permission from Project Koko.